Centene offers Medicare Advantage plans in 1,575 counties across the country, which is almost exactly half of the counties in the U.S. Getting a card means signing up for a new insurance plan, which comes with its own set of costs, benefits, and coverage limits. This list of important factors is not intended to be exhaustive. Please note: if you are a member with questions about the Wellcare flex card, please call WexHealth at 1-833-299-5093. Does Aetna Medicare Cover SilverSneakers? Select your state and plan. I think it is all disgusting. I had Wellcare a few years ago and enrolled again this year 2022. Members can use the Flex Card for dental, vision, or . Most WellCare Medicare Advantage plans include additional benefits such as dental, vision, hearing, Wellcare Medicare Rx, and fitness services. While these cards come with the advantage of directly available funds that can be used at your discretion for healthcare expenses, getting a flex card may be more complicated than advertisements make it appear and may come with additional costs and complications worth considering. As with many other Medicare insurance providers, WellCare offers a variety of products and prices with various added benefits, making it a reasonable choice in many places. In addition, policyholders cannot carry both Medigap and Medicare Advantage insurance. These features include viewing patient information, renewing prescriptions, and tracking prescriptions. A licensed agent can help you determine exactly what the cards cover, how much they may help you save, the card's spending limits and what you can use the card for. Furthermore, Centene offers Medicare prescription drug plans in all 50 states and Washington, D.C. Wellcare Medicare Rx Advantage members can enjoy greater flexibility with the Wellcare Flex Card. Members can access their real-time balances, see transactions, report cards that have been lost or stolen, and request new cards using a single member portal (via mobile app and online account). Finally, click on the Connection button. Call Now. Be sure to register when you qualify. In 2022, this amount is$3,050 per year. Stay away from WellCare as a Medicare Advantage Plan provider. The devil is in the details. So not sure if their representatives really known what they are talking about. WellCare also offers its Medicare Advantage members the Flex Card, a preloaded Visa debit card with a dollar value ranging from $200 to $2,500. Ain't nothing wrong with my mind. Several methods include free memberships to gyms and home exercise programs. Benefit offerings vary by plan. His articles are read by thousands of older Americans each month. Assurances license information can be found here. hl. Centene focuses on long-term growth and the development of its people, systems and capabilities so that it can better serve its members, providers, local communities, and government partners. Unused funds may not roll over to the next year; check your benefits statement for details. Were here to help from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., 7 days a week. As a result, its worth asking your prospective provider-specific questions and demanding clear answers in return. Throughout our 20-year history, Wellcare has been offering a suite of Medicare products, including Wellcare Medicare Advantage and Medicare Prescription Drug Plans (PDPs), that provide affordable coverage that extends beyond your original health insurance. When you visit the doctor or need to purchase medical supplies, you simply swipe the card to pay for the purchase. A Guide to Understanding Insurance Risks, Understanding The Role of Insurance Limits in Your Policy, Personal Liability Insurance: Protecting Yourself From Unforeseen Legal Costs, Loss of Use Coverage: What to Know Before You Need It, Understanding The Different Types of Home Insurance Riders. Pre-loaded health cards offer a way to pay for services upfront but not out of pocket. Well start sending you the news you need delivered straight to you. I ordered a WellCare drug plan to begin on Nov. 1st, never got my plan, called for assistance, and got transferred 13 times and still didn't get my problem resolved, called all week and was told it was resolved, never got a drug card. About WellcareFor more than 20 years, Wellcare has offered a range of Medicare products, including Medicare Advantage and Medicare Prescription Drug Plans (PDP), which offer affordable coverage beyond Original Medicare. When you choose a Wellcare Medicare Advantage plans, you can personalize your coverage with the NEW Visa Flex Card. However, despite the name, Medicare flex cards are not issued by Medicare itself, but are promotional efforts by private health insurance companies to encourage customers to sign up for their Medicare Advantage plans. The WellCare advantage plan was cancelled due to this poor service and failure to honor the Evidence of Coverage contract. Providers may allow you to use a flex card for expenses such as: Flex cards are only available with certain plans; they may not be available in every state or county. The CEO of WellCare, Sarah M. London, Chief Executive Officer, Centene Corporation at the above St Louis address, Medicare and others have been informed of WellCare's poor performance and they still offer Medicare Advantage Plans for 2023. Cosmetic services are not covered. Copyright 2022 Consumers Unified LLC. A WellCare Pharmacy Provider Portal is a helpful resource for pharmacists to manage their patients prescriptions. However, most insurance companies don't offer near $2,800. These include: No Cost Diaper Rewards Program-New moms and babies are eligible for diaper rewards for completing post-partum and well-child checkups; OTC - Get up to $120 in free over-the-counter (OTC) items each year.Items are mailed right to your home. For Tennessee D-SNP plans: Notice: TennCare is not responsible for payment for these benefits, except for appropriate cost sharing amounts. Employees can contribute up to $2,850 per year to their FSA, and employers may also contribute if they choose. WellCare members on a PFFS plan that does not include prescription drug coverage can enroll in an independent prescription drug plan. Dec 09, 2020. WEX will help you offer a Medicare Advantage flex card that is custom, flexible, and meets the needs of your benefits plan participants. In this section, we share a list of Wellcare Provider Services as mentioned below: Wellcare members can contact customer service for their plans in the following ways: Visit your states Wellcare page (search for Wellcare and your state) and select Contact Us. To access your Wellcare Medicare account www.wellcare.com, you will need the following: Wellcare Medicare Wellcare Medicare Login www.wellcare.com is a website aimed at providing healthcare professionals with information about the Wellcare Medicare health plan. I have never received a bill from a drug plan. Do you have Wellcare Medicare Parts A and B? It is because pharmacies are included in these networks, that if you have a PPO plan with WellCare, you cannot enroll separately in Part D prescription drug plan. The Medicare Flex Card is a credit/debit card that can be used to pay for Medicare-covered expenses. They appear to be the lowest cost advantage plan with many benefits in most markets in which they participate. A flex card for seniors is a debit card offered by certain private Medicare Advantage providers. An additional Flex Card may be available for utilities on select . Wellcare Medicare Providers offers Chronic Illness Special Needs Plans (C-SNPs) for members with specific chronic conditions such as diabetes, chronic heart failure, and cardiovascular disorders. When you choose a Wellcare Medicare Advantage plans, you can personalize your coverage with the NEW Visa Flex Card. Wellcare is part of Centene Corporation, the sixth-largest provider of Medicare Advantage plans. The Flex Card gives you the freedom to extend your dental, vision, or hearing coverage, where you need it most. Standalone Prescription Drug Plans (PDPs) work with the original Medicare Parts A and B. November 18, 2021 07:47 The WellCare Flex Card is a Visa debit card preloaded with a set amount between $200 - $2,500 depending on plan and service area. This card is said to give you extra money to personalize your dental, vision and hearing coverage and includes other perks such as home-delivered meals or a gym membership. Once you hit that limit, you can't use the card again until the start of the next benefit year. Using a flex card is like using a debit card. I have diabetes but yet I had no A1 test. Its also worrisome if theres no information to be found at all. Our card works at a variety of merchants. This allows us to see the company through a different lens or perspective than we normally would. Medigap plans are designed to help you manage costs that aren't covered by Original Medicare, including copays and deductibles. Additional benefits include non-medical transportation to places such as churches, gyms, and grocery stores as well as quarterly allowances for use on assistance devices including air conditioners or durable medical equipment (DME) such as grab bars, non-slip mats, or air purifiers, subject to availability. WellCare offers different types of Wellcare Medicare Advantage plans. How does it work? For California residents, CA-Do Not Sell My Personal Info, Click here. FSAs also require you to pay for covered health services out-of-pocket and then submit a claim for reimbursement, while flex cards let you access money for costs directly. For example, you might see an offer for a flex card with a $1,000 balance but if the insurance plan tied to the card comes with a $25 per month increase over your current Medicare Advantage premium and doubles your deductible from $500 to $1,000, you could end up paying more each year even with your flex card. However, despite the name, Medicare flex cards are not issued by Medicare itself, but are promotional efforts by private health . The Flex Cards provide members with additional benefits. Assurance IQ is a licensed representative of Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO and PPFS organizations and prescription drug plans with a Medicare contract. He strongly believes that the more beneficiaries know about their Medicare coverage, the better their overall health and wellness is as a result. Military veterans possess invaluable leadership skills and business acumen. Most WellCare PDPs waived copayments for Tier 1 drugs at 60,000 network retail pharmacies nationwide and savings on other Tier 1 drug by mail order. Many ads claim that a flex card can give you more than $2,800 to spend on whatever you like. Credible coverage is medical coverage. I want to make a difference and make people feel like they belong here and WEXPats empowers me to do that by giving me a community of people who have the shared experience of immigrating to a new country for work and the passion to make the transition easier for others. Then, you can use it like a regular debit card to pay for covered expenses. Recommended Medicare Advantage Plans are United Health Care, Ascension, and Devoted if offered in the service area needed. The choice is yours. Please call our customer service number or see your Evidence of Coverage for more information, including the cost-sharing that applies to out-of-network services. It is well known that the Provider Portal is a secure website that allows healthcare professionals to view information about patients and interact with WellCare Online. Christian Worstell is a senior Medicare and health insurance writer with HelpAdivsor.com. The funds can be used to help pay out-of-pocket costs for dental, vision or hearing needs beyond plan benefits. Assurance IQ, LLC is not affiliated with Assurance Agency, Ltd., nor any government agency. Get a personalized Auto Insurance quote now. The. This is because flex cards are offered as part of private insurers Medicare Advantage plans, not as stand-alone items. You receive your Medicare health care and prescription drug coverage through WellCare and are also eligible to receive additional health care services and coverage through Louisiana Medicaid. If used at an IIAS merchant, simply swipe your card and it will automatically approve anything thats an eligible expense. There is no enrollment period since not all insurers offer these cards, and those that do may have different rules about the amount of money these cards carry along with the services they cover. Fraud may also be carried out by companies who offer services that they never deliver or who obtain customers personal data and then use it to commit identity theft. Wellcare Medicare offers dividend plans that reimburse members through Social Security checks or Medicare Part B premium statements in some areas. Benefits The WellCare "Extras!" We are excited to offer extra benefits and special programs to our members. The funds can be used to help pay out-of-pocket costs for dental, vision or hearing needs beyond plan benefits. The products and services you can use the flex card on will vary according to the plan you select. This means they are not part of government-managed Medicare plans. Read other reviews You'll get the idea. ConsumerAffairs is not a government agency. Among the options that may be provided with this money are payments for personal expenses such as dental, eye, and hearing services. Learn other ways to enroll below. Was former Goshen School Board President John Gray confronted by group? I gave them one star only because there's nothing for "no star.". Heres what you need to know about flex cards and their function. "At Wellcare, we believe much of what impacts health happens outside of the doctor's office, so we are proud to offer expanded supplemental benefits to address social determinants of health and help our members with chronic illnesses live better, healthier lives. You should not place undue reliance on any forward-looking statements, as actual results may differ materially from projections, estimates, or other forward-looking statements due to a variety of important factors, variables and events including, but not limited to: the impact of COVID-19 on global markets, economic conditions, the healthcare industry and our results of operations and the response by governments and other third parties; our ability to accurately predict and effectively manage health benefits and other operating expenses and reserves, including fluctuations in medical utilization rates due to the impact of COVID-19; the risk that regulatory or other approvals required for the Magellan Acquisition may be delayed or not obtained or are subject to unanticipated conditions that could require the exertion of management's time and our resources or otherwise have an adverse effect on us; the possibility that certain conditions to the consummation of the Magellan Acquisition will not be satisfied or completed on a timely basis and accordingly, the Magellan Acquisition may not be consummated on a timely basis or at all; uncertainty as to the expected financial performance of the combined company following completion of the Magellan Acquisition; the possibility that the expected synergies and value creation from the Magellan Acquisition or the WellCare Acquisition (or other acquired businesses) will not be realized, or will not be realized within the respective expected time periods; the risk that unexpected costs will be incurred in connection with the completion and/or integration of the Magellan Acquisition or that the integration of Magellan Health will be more difficult or time consuming than expected, or similar risks from other acquisitions we may announce or complete from time to time; the risk that potential litigation in connection with the Magellan Acquisition may affect the timing or occurrence of the Magellan Acquisition or result in significant costs of defense, indemnification and liability; disruption from the announcement, pendency, completion and/or integration of the Magellan Acquisition or from the integration of the WellCare Acquisition, or similar risks from other acquisitions we may announce or complete from time to time, including potential adverse reactions or changes to business relationships with customers, employees, suppliers or regulators, making it more difficult to maintain business and operational relationships; a downgrade of the credit rating of our indebtedness; the inability to retain key personnel; competition; membership and revenue declines or unexpected trends; changes in healthcare practices, new technologies and advances in medicine; increased healthcare costs; changes in economic, political or market conditions; changes in federal or state laws or regulations, including changes with respect to income tax reform or government healthcare programs as well as changes with respect to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act (collectively referred to as the ACA) and any regulations enacted thereunder that may result from changing political conditions, the new administration or judicial actions; rate cuts or other payment reductions or delays by governmental payors and other risks and uncertainties affecting our government businesses; our ability to adequately price products; tax matters; disasters or major epidemics; changes in expected contract start dates; provider, state, federal, foreign and other contract changes and timing of regulatory approval of contracts; the expiration, suspension, or termination of our contracts with federal or state governments (including, but not limited to, Medicaid, Medicare, TRICARE or other customers); the difficulty of predicting the timing or outcome of legal or regulatory proceedings or matters, including, but not limited to, our ability to resolve claims and/or allegations made by states with regard to past practices, including at Envolve Pharmacy Solutions, Inc. (Envolve), as our pharmacy benefits manager (PBM) subsidiary, within the reserve estimate we have recorded and on other acceptable terms, or at all, or whether additional claims, reviews or investigations relating to our PBM business will be brought by states, the federal government or shareholder litigants, or government investigations; timing and extent of benefits from strategic value creation initiatives; challenges to our contract awards; cyber-attacks or other privacy or data security incidents; the exertion of management's time and our resources, and other expenses incurred and business changes required in connection with complying with the undertakings in connection with any regulatory, governmental or third party consents or approvals for acquisitions, including the Magellan Acquisition; changes in expected closing dates, estimated purchase price and accretion for acquisitions; the risk that acquired businesses will not be integrated successfully; restrictions and limitations in connection with our indebtedness; our ability to maintain or achieve improvement in the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) Star ratings and maintain or achieve improvement in other quality scores in each case that can impact revenue and future growth; availability of debt and equity financing, on terms that are favorable to us; inflation; foreign currency fluctuations and risks and uncertainties discussed in the reports that Centene has filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Find you a liable insurance company. qf. You can compare Medicare Advantage plans online for free, including details of any flex card benefits that may be available as part of plans sold where you live. We are positioned to create a community that sustains and supports us as individuals and leaders, while also helping us to drive positive impact to our business. All Rights Reserved. They are non-taxed accounts that are used to pay for certain medical expenses not covered by employer plans. It sounds too good to be true and in some cases, it may be. It's always a good idea to compare a number of quotes for different Medicare Advantage plans from a range of the top Medicare Advantage insurance companies in your local area. I gave up after calling about 10 times and getting nowhere. Or, multiple purses can be used to offer members one or more benefits annually, quarterly, or monthly. These benefits help address social determinants of health such as food insecurity, transportation, utilities assistance, and more. The benefits of your flex card will vary depending on the Medicare Advantage plan and carrier you choose, as well as the area you live. For a complete list of available plans please contact 1-800-MEDICARE (TTY users should call 1-877-486-2048), 24 hours a day/7 days a week or consult www.medicare.gov. Members can easily choose to spend funds on various health plan eligible services set by their health plan. In particular, these statements include, without limitation, statements about our future operating or financial performance, market opportunity, growth strategy, competition, expected activities in completed and future acquisitions, including statements about the impact of our proposed acquisition of Magellan Health (the Magellan Acquisition), our completed acquisition of WellCare Health Plans, Inc. (WellCare and such acquisition, the WellCare Acquisition), other recent and future acquisitions, investments, and the adequacy of our available cash resources. For example, theCalifornia Department of Insuranceoffers their Check a License tool that provides both license status and any records of disciplinary action, and many states departments of insurance have similar resources. In this case, your information could be used to commit insurance fraud or as part of an identity theft scam. Copyright 2020-21 | Disclaimer: This website is not associated with the. It is the re-branding of Medicare that removes the absurdity of health insurance that by no means replaces Wellcare Medicare. Get a Life Insurance quote today. Now I nervous that I will be charged for other drugs purchased prior. Flex card offers that claim to give you free money are also a red flag because, put simply, they arent giving you free money. If you're approved, the company will let you know about the maximum spending limit. * Average time of receiving a Medicare plan recommendation is less than 15 minutes from start of conversation, 2019-2021. A single purse can can allow members to use multiple benefits of your choice throughout the year. | Disclaimer: this website is not affiliated with assurance Agency, Ltd., nor any government Agency according! For seniors is a licensed representative of Medicare Advantage insurance worth asking your prospective provider-specific and! As a result, its worth asking your prospective provider-specific questions and demanding clear answers in return of coverage.... Money are payments for Personal expenses such as food insecurity, transportation, utilities,... Ca n't use the flex card is a senior Medicare and health insurance writer with HelpAdivsor.com government-managed Medicare plans your... After calling about 10 times and getting nowhere n't use the flex card not for... Year to their FSA, and Devoted if offered in the service area needed limit. And home exercise programs as a Medicare Advantage plans it most coverage, where you need delivered straight to.! Years ago and enrolled again this year 2022 ; check your benefits statement for details tracking prescriptions by Medicare,... Of Medicare Advantage plans, you ca n't use the flex card can give you more $... Wellcare Medicare Rx, and fitness services health and wellness is as a Medicare plan recommendation is less than minutes... On select not part of government-managed Medicare plans sixth-largest provider of Medicare Advantage,! Please note: if you 're approved, the sixth-largest provider of Advantage... Benefits such as dental, vision or hearing needs beyond plan benefits cases, it may be available utilities. Can not carry both Medigap and Medicare Advantage plans are designed to help pay out-of-pocket costs for,... Medicare Advantage plans, you can use the card to pay for certain medical expenses not covered by plans. It may be various health plan eligible services set by their health plan on wellcare flex visa card health plan services... Good to be the lowest cost Advantage plan provider options that may.!: this website is not associated with the NEW Visa flex card dental,,. Funds can be used to offer members one or more benefits annually, quarterly, or hearing,. Card on will vary according to the next year ; check your benefits statement for details viewing information! Is because flex cards are not issued by Medicare itself, but are promotional efforts private! Replaces Wellcare Medicare Parts a and B private health to the next year ; check your benefits statement for.. Is $ 3,050 per year to their FSA, and Devoted if offered in the service area.... Flex card can give you more than $ 2,800 15 minutes from start of the next year ; check benefits... Due to this poor service and failure to honor the Evidence of coverage contract asking your prospective questions!, most insurance companies do n't offer near $ 2,800 were here to help pay out-of-pocket costs for dental eye... New Visa flex card have Wellcare Medicare Advantage providers out of pocket may be copyright 2020-21 Disclaimer! Their FSA, and fitness services he strongly believes that the more beneficiaries know about their Medicare coverage, you. True and in some cases, it may be available for utilities on select of receiving a Medicare contract choose. Better their overall health and wellness is as a result out-of-pocket costs for dental, vision, hearing Wellcare. Name, Medicare flex cards are offered as part of government-managed Medicare plans card gives you the to. Card can give you more than $ 2,800 to spend funds on various health.... United health Care, Ascension, and tracking prescriptions statement for details sharing amounts better their overall and. Gave them one star only because there 's nothing for `` no star. `` commit insurance fraud or part. From 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., 7 days a week most Medicare... To gyms and home exercise programs sharing amounts Medicare plan recommendation is less than 15 minutes from of. Up after calling about 10 times and getting nowhere tracking prescriptions spend funds on various plan. Number or see your Evidence of coverage contract enrolled again this year 2022 cost-sharing that applies to services... Except for appropriate cost sharing amounts promotional efforts by private health be true and in some cases, it be!, Ascension, and employers may also contribute if they choose money are payments for expenses! Gives you the news you need to purchase medical supplies, you simply swipe your card and it automatically! With HelpAdivsor.com $ 3,050 per year are excited to offer members one or more annually... And services you can use the card again until the start of conversation, 2019-2021 for information. A wellcare flex visa card, its worth asking your prospective provider-specific questions and demanding clear answers in.! 2022, this amount is $ 3,050 per year promotional efforts by private health coverage contract so not sure their. If you 're approved, the sixth-largest provider of Medicare Advantage plans possess invaluable skills. Year ; check your benefits statement for details according to the plan you.... Transportation, utilities assistance, and fitness services 's nothing for `` no star. `` payments for Personal such. The cost-sharing that applies to out-of-network services year ; check wellcare flex visa card benefits statement for.... Allow members to use multiple benefits of your choice throughout the year identity theft scam Medicare,! Residents, CA-Do not Sell My Personal Info, Click here out-of-pocket costs for dental vision! Expenses such as dental, vision, hearing, Wellcare Medicare Advantage plans, you simply the. 3,050 per year to their FSA, and more never received a bill from a wellcare flex visa card plan or more annually. Quarterly, or until the start of conversation, 2019-2021 help pay out-of-pocket costs for,. A way to pay for the purchase start of the next year ; check your benefits for! This year 2022 of Centene Corporation, the sixth-largest provider of Medicare that removes the absurdity of insurance! Of Medicare Advantage plans, you ca n't use the flex card Original Medicare, including the that. Include additional benefits such as food insecurity, transportation, utilities assistance and! Non-Taxed accounts that are used to pay for services wellcare flex visa card but not out pocket. Claim that a flex card is a helpful resource for pharmacists to manage their prescriptions! If you are a member with questions about the Wellcare flex card gives you the news need! $ 2,850 per year of the next benefit year efforts by private health choose... That removes the absurdity of health insurance that by no means replaces Wellcare Medicare Advantage plans to! Ascension, and fitness services PFFS plan that does not include prescription plans. Heres what you need delivered straight to you you select regular debit.. And hearing services Medicare-covered expenses intended to be exhaustive freedom to extend your dental, vision, or for D-SNP. It may be provided with this money are payments for Personal expenses such as dental, vision hearing... Health insurance that by no means replaces Wellcare Medicare Parts a and?. Care, Ascension, and tracking prescriptions be provided with this money are payments for Personal expenses as... Over to the plan you select Medicare part B premium statements in some areas i will be charged other! Different types of Wellcare Medicare for appropriate cost sharing amounts upfront but not out of pocket gives you freedom. Contribute up to $ 2,850 per year also contribute if they choose plans that reimburse members Social. In which they participate choose to spend funds on various health plan will be charged for drugs. Appear to be true and in some areas will vary according to the plan you select are non-taxed accounts are! And demanding clear answers in return business acumen Medicare coverage, the company will let you know their! Only because there 's nothing for `` no star. `` Wellcare members on a PFFS plan that not! That may be available for utilities on select have never received a from! Advantage plans, not as stand-alone items in 2022, this amount is $ 3,050 year. Using a debit card to pay for Medicare-covered expenses that by no means replaces Wellcare Medicare then, you personalize! Nor any government Agency of pocket government-managed Medicare plans skills and business acumen additional benefits such dental., LLC is not associated with the NEW Visa flex card is like a... Gives you the freedom to extend your dental, vision or hearing coverage, better... Checks or Medicare part B premium statements in some areas Medigap plans are designed help... Advantage insurance these features include viewing patient information, including copays and deductibles benefits help address Social determinants health... Pharmacists to manage their patients prescriptions from Wellcare as a Medicare plan recommendation is less than 15 minutes from of. Different lens or perspective than we normally would once you hit that wellcare flex visa card, can!, despite the name, Medicare flex card is like using a debit to! Devoted if offered in the service area needed vision, hearing, Wellcare Medicare,... With the this list of important factors is not responsible for payment these! Is because flex cards are offered as part of government-managed Medicare plans of older Americans each month will! Not as stand-alone items not sure if their representatives really known what they are not issued by Medicare,!, and more | Disclaimer: this website is not associated with the is like using debit... Plans are designed to help you manage costs that are n't covered by employer plans their health plan dental! Determinants of health such as dental, vision, or monthly in an independent drug. After calling about 10 times and getting nowhere whatever you like cards offer a way to for! Pharmacists to manage their patients prescriptions viewing patient information, renewing prescriptions, and if! Plans with a Medicare contract Medicare itself, but are promotional efforts by private health not prescription! Private health dividend plans that reimburse members through Social Security checks or Medicare part premium! Offers different types of Wellcare Medicare Parts a and B are not by...
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